"We may disagree with someone’s choice to be a #TradWife, but we can still respect that it’s their choice." -> I've always loved the movie Mona Lisa Smile, and this is one of the plot points, so I was reminded.
Also, I searched for an article I read recently (but can't find it, did you write it? lol) about how the rise of traditionally masculine men showing emotion, and playing roles in their relationships outside of gender stereotypes, are a good new type of role model for boys. I remember Travis Kelce was one of them, but the article spread wider than just him.
I don't think I wrote that, but I'd be interested in reading it! I do see glimmers of hope here and there, like when my sons call something "cute." I can't imagine a middle school boy saying that back in the 90s.
“Choice Feminism is about empowering women to make the choices that best suit their circumstances, be they around education, work, beauty standards, or whatever. “
I support some of what you say, but the idea that a belief system focused on helping women to self actualise -by your own definition- has anything to offer boys or men is fundamentally flawed.
If ‘choice’ (or whatever variety) of feminism is about 50% of society, then isn’t the corollary that the other 50% of society is entitled to their own empowering beliefs, values and attitudes?
Instead you adopt pejorative language- “man-o-sphere” - when describing men seeking to support other men. This sort of othering is exactly why boys are suspicious of soi disant “experts” on gender telling them their they are doing being male all wrong .
I support your right to advocate for girls and women in whatever way you choose. But given what most feminists know about men could be written on a postage stamp and still have room for Valerie Solanas’ Scum Manifesto, I simply don’t understand why you feel you that boys and men should subscribe to beliefs focused on women and girls.
I wish you well, but the answer to your headline is “no!” Egalitarianism might be a more inclusive suit of beliefs and more likely to celebrate boys and girls, men and women, without demonising, ridiculing or othering half of human kind.
I guess we disagree on the definition of feminism. For me (and, I'd argue, the vast majority of feminists) it's not a zero-sum game, where women dominate men, it's about equal rights and responsibilities between the sexes. I desire wholeness for men and boys just as I desire it for women and girls.
I do hope there are positive spaces online where men support each other without denigrating women. (I know that, just because I haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist!) But historically, many online communities focused on masculinity have done just that. I'm thinking of Pick Up Artists, Incels, Gamergate, and some (though perhaps not all) Men's Rights groups. I see it in the way many influencers use terms like "alpha" and "beta" to denigrate other men who don't conform to their (very narrow) definition of masculinity. But I'd love to be proven wrong on this!
So interesting. I'm reading in Randy and Edith Woodley's new book Journey to Eloheh about how Native American communities (and particularly women elders) watch all the children in the community carefully for signs of what their unique gifts might be. Love the idea of paying attention to what makes for each young person's growth and flourishing, regardless of its relationship to oppressive gendered norms.
1. Thank you for the shout out! 2. I stopped & stared at the photo at the top of the post -- the Nerf gun one -- to see if that was my kid. ;) (It's not, but it make ME, his mother, stop & look) 3. I agree w everything you've said here.
I see so much of this in my classroom. Our boys are in desperate need of good role models who are interesting. (love you Doug, but high school boys don't know who you are).
I bet. I'm hearing the middle schoolers in my life use terms like "alpha" and "beta" to describe how manly someone is and it's all I can do to yell that this is junk science based on a debunked study of wolves.
Absolutely great post, as always. I completely agree with you, and I wish I had a viable solution for boys. I think advocating for HEAL is a great idea and it's not something I've seen suggested very much.
"We may disagree with someone’s choice to be a #TradWife, but we can still respect that it’s their choice." -> I've always loved the movie Mona Lisa Smile, and this is one of the plot points, so I was reminded.
Also, I searched for an article I read recently (but can't find it, did you write it? lol) about how the rise of traditionally masculine men showing emotion, and playing roles in their relationships outside of gender stereotypes, are a good new type of role model for boys. I remember Travis Kelce was one of them, but the article spread wider than just him.
Enjoyed this one, as always!
I don't think I wrote that, but I'd be interested in reading it! I do see glimmers of hope here and there, like when my sons call something "cute." I can't imagine a middle school boy saying that back in the 90s.
“Can choice feminism save our boys?”
Betteridge’s Law applies.
huh. Hadn't heard of that one before. Do you really think so, or do you just take issues with this type of headlines?
“Choice Feminism is about empowering women to make the choices that best suit their circumstances, be they around education, work, beauty standards, or whatever. “
I support some of what you say, but the idea that a belief system focused on helping women to self actualise -by your own definition- has anything to offer boys or men is fundamentally flawed.
If ‘choice’ (or whatever variety) of feminism is about 50% of society, then isn’t the corollary that the other 50% of society is entitled to their own empowering beliefs, values and attitudes?
Instead you adopt pejorative language- “man-o-sphere” - when describing men seeking to support other men. This sort of othering is exactly why boys are suspicious of soi disant “experts” on gender telling them their they are doing being male all wrong .
I support your right to advocate for girls and women in whatever way you choose. But given what most feminists know about men could be written on a postage stamp and still have room for Valerie Solanas’ Scum Manifesto, I simply don’t understand why you feel you that boys and men should subscribe to beliefs focused on women and girls.
I wish you well, but the answer to your headline is “no!” Egalitarianism might be a more inclusive suit of beliefs and more likely to celebrate boys and girls, men and women, without demonising, ridiculing or othering half of human kind.
Peace.
I guess we disagree on the definition of feminism. For me (and, I'd argue, the vast majority of feminists) it's not a zero-sum game, where women dominate men, it's about equal rights and responsibilities between the sexes. I desire wholeness for men and boys just as I desire it for women and girls.
I do hope there are positive spaces online where men support each other without denigrating women. (I know that, just because I haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist!) But historically, many online communities focused on masculinity have done just that. I'm thinking of Pick Up Artists, Incels, Gamergate, and some (though perhaps not all) Men's Rights groups. I see it in the way many influencers use terms like "alpha" and "beta" to denigrate other men who don't conform to their (very narrow) definition of masculinity. But I'd love to be proven wrong on this!
So interesting. I'm reading in Randy and Edith Woodley's new book Journey to Eloheh about how Native American communities (and particularly women elders) watch all the children in the community carefully for signs of what their unique gifts might be. Love the idea of paying attention to what makes for each young person's growth and flourishing, regardless of its relationship to oppressive gendered norms.
I love this. It's putting the person first instead of their gender.
1. Thank you for the shout out! 2. I stopped & stared at the photo at the top of the post -- the Nerf gun one -- to see if that was my kid. ;) (It's not, but it make ME, his mother, stop & look) 3. I agree w everything you've said here.
I'm so honored that you read this! Loved your book and have been recommending it to many folks!
Thank you!
I see so much of this in my classroom. Our boys are in desperate need of good role models who are interesting. (love you Doug, but high school boys don't know who you are).
I bet. I'm hearing the middle schoolers in my life use terms like "alpha" and "beta" to describe how manly someone is and it's all I can do to yell that this is junk science based on a debunked study of wolves.
Absolutely great post, as always. I completely agree with you, and I wish I had a viable solution for boys. I think advocating for HEAL is a great idea and it's not something I've seen suggested very much.
thanks, Lou. "HEAL" is an idea from Richard Reeves' book, "Of Boys and Men."
This is so important. Thanks for writing. 💜💜
thanks, Deirdre!
I kind of touch on the same subject here: https://lithub.com/after-apalachee-how-americas-gun-violence-epidemic-affects-us-all/
thanks, looking forward to reading!