I love this! For the past ... decade? ... I have been learning to work with my emotions, not wrestle them into submission. (Is it odd that watching Pixar's Inside Out was actually a big catalyst for this?)
Queen Bee is wise in all things, and that line specifically has definitely helped me to forgive when anger and hurt is still present. It's taken a long time to come around as forgiveness as letting go from within, rather than needing something from the other person (or eagerly waiting for karma to settle scores) but seeing it as releasing an attachment to a person or suffering has definitely helped. Work in progress, always!
in a world full of Taylor Swifts, may we all have the grace of Beyonce, haha. You make a good distinction that forgiveness is not needing something from the other person (even karma). Maybe this is a way of taking power back?
I appreciate this musing as I currently live in tension and wrongness with someone who has obliterated boundaries. Anger should move us and when we tamp it down, I think it does make us harm our own bodies in one way or another. I also think there is some relationship between forgiveness and power. Like it’s much easier to forgive in whatever form when we have power to leave, power to enact consequences for the other person, or even power to protect ourselves. I think we can “let go” of what we don’t have power over, but I find it much harder to reach forgiveness.
Do you know what form of the word is used in the Lord’s Prayer? We do like a good opportunity to rush to the happy ending at the expense of character development, but I don’t think Jesus was generally a big proponent of that.
Thank you for your writing. And while it’s obvious that dude needs to learn how not to wield his patriarchal empowered imposing himself on others, he should wonder what button got pushed that he felt moved to speak to you.
Mushrooms sound magical. I used to know someone who used them very intentionally to process things and then continue that processing when back in regular reality, which seemed a powerful tool for growth for them. But I think there was a temptation to perpetually dwell in that cycle and then regular life felt hard.
I'm sorry that you're in a tough situation with a boundary crosser. That truly sucks and I hope you are taking extra good care of yourself.
I appreciate what you said about power. It seems like maybe we need a certain amount of distance to even begin the process of forgiveness, i.e. is it possible to forgive someone who's in the midst of harming you? And if so, would it be healthy? Forgiveness is a choice, and you need a certain amount of power in order to make that choice.
The Lord's Prayer is a little more complicated. Jesus primarily spoke Aramaic, a language related to Hebrew, but the gospels were written down in Greek. As far as I can see, pretty much all translations into English use the word "forgive," it's the WHAT is forgiven that alternates (trespasses, sins, debts, etc). There's a bit of info here, scroll down to "Fifth Petition" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer
I've definitely come to think of forgiveness as "I don't need anything from this person" (literally the idea of forgiveness in the way we talk about debt forgiveness -- whatever we feel is owed to us **from that person** is relinquished), so basically what Ruttenberg describes as pardon. I think that kind of forgiveness includes working through our feelings to get to the state that Desmond Tutu describes: that you're not consumed by hate/anger, so "you are no longer chained to the perpetrator." Basically, freedom!
I like the way you phrased the two parts: one, not needing anything and two, working through our feelings, with the goal of finding freedom. This emphasis on the process feels like a healthier way of looking at forgiveness.
I was estranged from my dad for 20 years, and late in those years it just started to seem pointless, so I “forgave”him (putting a single word on it makes it seem like a discrete event when it was really a process0 and we re-established communication. It was never the same, but I’m glad I did it. When he died several years later, I was glad that we had repaired the breach in our relationship. Shrooms? Great fun, but I never asked them to fulfill a named function (like promoting forgiveness), I just let them take me where they may.
I like the Desmond Tu-Tu definition you mention and I particularly like C S Lewis’s (I think) suggestion that forgiveness is to set someone free and then to discover it was you that was set free.
I also like the idea of separating pardon and forgiveness. As I see it, forgiveness has nothing to do with the offender and everything to do with the offendee.
Pardon/absolution may come from the offendee, but focus on the offender, and may be granted by an authority other than the offendee, which may itself further the offence against the offendee, if the offender is not prevented from engaging in further offences.
I love this! For the past ... decade? ... I have been learning to work with my emotions, not wrestle them into submission. (Is it odd that watching Pixar's Inside Out was actually a big catalyst for this?)
Mushrooms!! 🍄 🤣🤣🤣
Queen Bee is wise in all things, and that line specifically has definitely helped me to forgive when anger and hurt is still present. It's taken a long time to come around as forgiveness as letting go from within, rather than needing something from the other person (or eagerly waiting for karma to settle scores) but seeing it as releasing an attachment to a person or suffering has definitely helped. Work in progress, always!
in a world full of Taylor Swifts, may we all have the grace of Beyonce, haha. You make a good distinction that forgiveness is not needing something from the other person (even karma). Maybe this is a way of taking power back?
Loved this story. And those blessed distinctions from the rabbi & bishop 🙏🏽 I love the moth! Where can we listen to your puppeteer story?
It's not on the radio yet, as I'm still performing from time to time. But when it airs, I will certainly share!
Can’t wait to listen! This is one of my favorite moth stories ever and it’s about a kid who was a clown for Jesus ❤️🩹 https://themoth.org/stories/juggling-and-jesus
OMG how have I not heard this yet???? THANKS
I appreciate this musing as I currently live in tension and wrongness with someone who has obliterated boundaries. Anger should move us and when we tamp it down, I think it does make us harm our own bodies in one way or another. I also think there is some relationship between forgiveness and power. Like it’s much easier to forgive in whatever form when we have power to leave, power to enact consequences for the other person, or even power to protect ourselves. I think we can “let go” of what we don’t have power over, but I find it much harder to reach forgiveness.
Do you know what form of the word is used in the Lord’s Prayer? We do like a good opportunity to rush to the happy ending at the expense of character development, but I don’t think Jesus was generally a big proponent of that.
Thank you for your writing. And while it’s obvious that dude needs to learn how not to wield his patriarchal empowered imposing himself on others, he should wonder what button got pushed that he felt moved to speak to you.
Mushrooms sound magical. I used to know someone who used them very intentionally to process things and then continue that processing when back in regular reality, which seemed a powerful tool for growth for them. But I think there was a temptation to perpetually dwell in that cycle and then regular life felt hard.
I'm sorry that you're in a tough situation with a boundary crosser. That truly sucks and I hope you are taking extra good care of yourself.
I appreciate what you said about power. It seems like maybe we need a certain amount of distance to even begin the process of forgiveness, i.e. is it possible to forgive someone who's in the midst of harming you? And if so, would it be healthy? Forgiveness is a choice, and you need a certain amount of power in order to make that choice.
The Lord's Prayer is a little more complicated. Jesus primarily spoke Aramaic, a language related to Hebrew, but the gospels were written down in Greek. As far as I can see, pretty much all translations into English use the word "forgive," it's the WHAT is forgiven that alternates (trespasses, sins, debts, etc). There's a bit of info here, scroll down to "Fifth Petition" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer
I've definitely come to think of forgiveness as "I don't need anything from this person" (literally the idea of forgiveness in the way we talk about debt forgiveness -- whatever we feel is owed to us **from that person** is relinquished), so basically what Ruttenberg describes as pardon. I think that kind of forgiveness includes working through our feelings to get to the state that Desmond Tutu describes: that you're not consumed by hate/anger, so "you are no longer chained to the perpetrator." Basically, freedom!
I like the way you phrased the two parts: one, not needing anything and two, working through our feelings, with the goal of finding freedom. This emphasis on the process feels like a healthier way of looking at forgiveness.
I was estranged from my dad for 20 years, and late in those years it just started to seem pointless, so I “forgave”him (putting a single word on it makes it seem like a discrete event when it was really a process0 and we re-established communication. It was never the same, but I’m glad I did it. When he died several years later, I was glad that we had repaired the breach in our relationship. Shrooms? Great fun, but I never asked them to fulfill a named function (like promoting forgiveness), I just let them take me where they may.
I'm glad you and your dad found peace, Tom. Dealing with parents is sooooo complicated!
I like the Desmond Tu-Tu definition you mention and I particularly like C S Lewis’s (I think) suggestion that forgiveness is to set someone free and then to discover it was you that was set free.
I also like the idea of separating pardon and forgiveness. As I see it, forgiveness has nothing to do with the offender and everything to do with the offendee.
Pardon/absolution may come from the offendee, but focus on the offender, and may be granted by an authority other than the offendee, which may itself further the offence against the offendee, if the offender is not prevented from engaging in further offences.
sometimes I have beef with C.S. Lewis, but when he's right he's right.