Hi, Katy -- I've just shared your post with a sister-in-law, with whom I had a 2+ hour conversation last week when visiting family in the midwest. She's in a chronically painful, and now quite possibly dangerous situation at home. Thank you for expressing your own experience so eloquently, and compassionately. I hope what you've said will add to her own ability to make a very difficult choice.
Thanks for sharing! I think that writing about the hard stuff is so important. Just looking at your comment thread, it's clear how your vulnerability and thoughtfulness touches others.
To me, what you describe seems like nuanced no contact. There's a humanness and brokenness in the estrangement, but what you describe here also feels...I don't know...commendable? You've broken the cycle of overlooking your mom's behavior and the silence about its effects.
And I think "no contact" gets a bad wrap partly because the parents who are estranged feel, rightly or wrongly, that their kids haven't expressed why or haven't provided a sense of how the relationship might be repaired. Your letter, I think, did that. I would be shocked and pleasantly surprised to receive a letter like that (and confused, since I rarely drink).
Also, I hadn't heard of this acronym in relation to estrangement before: fear, obligation, and guilt (FOG). I'll be thinking some about how that does and does not relate to my kids.
FWIW, I think our situations are totally different, and I have so much empathy for you. "Estrangement" might be the headline on both, but the devil's in the details.
I’m sorry this has been your experience, Katherine. So much of this resonates.
My dad is a warm and charismatic man, but also extremely manipulative. I suspect he’s clinically narcissistic. He doesn’t lash out at me directly, but for my entire adult life I’ve been the subject of family gossip between him and my siblings. I’m not close to any of them, and my siblings have never reached out to me out of concern for what our dad says about me. I think that’s the most hurtful part.
During the summer of 2020 I stopped trying to have a relationship with him and my siblings. I didn’t cut things off or burn any bridges, I just stopped initiating. I also made a mental shift internally to let go of being close to family.
When my dad reaches out, I keep it light and shallow. My kids want nothing to do with him.
I grieve the loss of these relationships, and I’m sad my family doesn’t know how spectacular my kids are. But I’ve seen a noticeable improvement in my peace and mental health since I disconnected.
It's amazing (and sad!) how common this is. I'm sorry about your dad and siblings, but glad you've found peace. It's kind of crazy how much distance helps with that.
Good Lord do I ever relate. I never cut off contact, but she died of a rare disease. Our last visit was pleasant, courtesy of the Ativan she was on, so we at least had that.
Wow, I really appreciate your vulnerability and bravery in sharing this difficult story. This really resonated with me and gave voice to the estrangement in my life that I rarely speak about openly--most people just avoid the topic with me or are at a loss when I bring it up. It's an ambiguous kind of grief but a grief nonetheless. I want to pin this quote on my wall: "As I’d worked towards having healthier communication in my own relationships, the difference between my household and my parents’ was thrown into stark relief." Yes yes and yes. Also, I am SO grateful for how you shared that you noticed how you were with your own family at home after an interaction, and it wasn't how you wanted to be. Same.
I'm also grateful that you mentioned being raised in Christianity. I was raised with religion very front and center it's hard not to feel like they've got God on their side, too. I found Alice Miller's work on betraying the commandment to love thy father and mother on this useful (though it turns out from her son she was abusive too, and she also does some really bad readings of literature in The Body Never Lies where I got it, but still).
The essay collection No Contact came out this year and has been useful on speaking all of this, too, in case you're interested. Also, BPD is overwhelmingly of traumatic origin, and overlaps largely with Complex PTSD (I'm totally convinced by Judith Herman's work on this in Trauma and Recovery). Substance use disorders especially when they start young often are a way to cope with trauma too. That doesn't excuse any behavior or change anything, because how we choose to respond to our trauma is our own responsibility. But it might help contextualize what you are doing right now as healing intergenerational trauma, and that's an enormous gift.
If you ever want to gab about mothers and going no contact, it would be so welcome! Thanks again for sharing this.
Thanks for sharing this, Molly! It can be so taboo to talk about. I have the No Contact anthology but Ive never heard of Alice Miller's work. I will check her out!
My mother was not an alcoholic, but certainly was WAY too hooked on me (an only child, she, a widow). So, when, at the age of 23, I said I was moving out (after a LOT of thought and agony), she said that if I did, she would kill herself. I had the presence of mind (after years of practice living with her emotional manipulation) to respond: just tell me what flowers you want at your funeral. I moved out. She helped, gathered lots of things she decided my partner and I would need in our new home. She did not kill herself. So, I guess the moral of this story is that sometimes threats are manipulation, and not real (not arguing they should not be taken seriously, just commenting.) And, by the way, I loved my mom dearly. She had many, many very wonderful qualities. And a few that were not so wonderful. She was human.
it’s such a tough threat to deal with, which is, I suppose why some people use it! I’m glad you were able to figure out a way to handle a complicated situation with your mom
Well said! I had a similar reaction to the online accusations that this is a "trend" (and wrote about it). There's a therapist here on Substack who has made that her whole schtick -- appealing to parents who have been cut-off, blaming it all on trends/internet culture, and she rarely if ever acknowledges the stressors placed upon adult children and how hard it is to make the decision.
I have been on and off contact with my mother for years. We're currently in contact again, as she's been experiencing frail physical health, which stabilized her mental health (she's bed-bound so can't walk over to the medicine cabinet and get high on Ambien, etc.). I know it likely won't last, and I still keep some emotional distance...but I feel like that's another layer to this that isn't mentioned enough: How estrangement can be temporary or "as needed."
What my own situation has taught me, too, is that my daughter may one day make the same decision and cut off her relationship with me. While I'd be devastated, I do not feel she "owes" me anything relationship-wise simply because she is my daughter. I'd also never want her to ruin her own mental health trying to save mine.
Yes, I think it’s often framed in this all-or-nothing way: either you’re super close or you don’t talk. Sometimes these estrangements might be temporary or conditional, and I’m sure there are many people who are quasi-estranged/low-contact without putting labels on it
Hi, Katy -- I've just shared your post with a sister-in-law, with whom I had a 2+ hour conversation last week when visiting family in the midwest. She's in a chronically painful, and now quite possibly dangerous situation at home. Thank you for expressing your own experience so eloquently, and compassionately. I hope what you've said will add to her own ability to make a very difficult choice.
Thank you, Kathy. Praying for your sister-in-law and glad she has you in her corner
Thanks for sharing! I think that writing about the hard stuff is so important. Just looking at your comment thread, it's clear how your vulnerability and thoughtfulness touches others.
To me, what you describe seems like nuanced no contact. There's a humanness and brokenness in the estrangement, but what you describe here also feels...I don't know...commendable? You've broken the cycle of overlooking your mom's behavior and the silence about its effects.
And I think "no contact" gets a bad wrap partly because the parents who are estranged feel, rightly or wrongly, that their kids haven't expressed why or haven't provided a sense of how the relationship might be repaired. Your letter, I think, did that. I would be shocked and pleasantly surprised to receive a letter like that (and confused, since I rarely drink).
Also, I hadn't heard of this acronym in relation to estrangement before: fear, obligation, and guilt (FOG). I'll be thinking some about how that does and does not relate to my kids.
FWIW, I think our situations are totally different, and I have so much empathy for you. "Estrangement" might be the headline on both, but the devil's in the details.
I’m sorry this has been your experience, Katherine. So much of this resonates.
My dad is a warm and charismatic man, but also extremely manipulative. I suspect he’s clinically narcissistic. He doesn’t lash out at me directly, but for my entire adult life I’ve been the subject of family gossip between him and my siblings. I’m not close to any of them, and my siblings have never reached out to me out of concern for what our dad says about me. I think that’s the most hurtful part.
During the summer of 2020 I stopped trying to have a relationship with him and my siblings. I didn’t cut things off or burn any bridges, I just stopped initiating. I also made a mental shift internally to let go of being close to family.
When my dad reaches out, I keep it light and shallow. My kids want nothing to do with him.
I grieve the loss of these relationships, and I’m sad my family doesn’t know how spectacular my kids are. But I’ve seen a noticeable improvement in my peace and mental health since I disconnected.
It's amazing (and sad!) how common this is. I'm sorry about your dad and siblings, but glad you've found peace. It's kind of crazy how much distance helps with that.
Good Lord do I ever relate. I never cut off contact, but she died of a rare disease. Our last visit was pleasant, courtesy of the Ativan she was on, so we at least had that.
Sometimes you have to take what you can get, right?
Truth! I’ll be frank: I never wished her harm, just wished she was off somewhere happy and far away from me. I did not mourn when she passed away.
that's the thing I think a lot of people don't get: you can wish someone well and not want to see them anymore
Ouch. So complicated and hard. Like you, I don’t know anyone who chooses this easily. Blessings in this odd, painful space.
Thank you, Mary
Wow, I really appreciate your vulnerability and bravery in sharing this difficult story. This really resonated with me and gave voice to the estrangement in my life that I rarely speak about openly--most people just avoid the topic with me or are at a loss when I bring it up. It's an ambiguous kind of grief but a grief nonetheless. I want to pin this quote on my wall: "As I’d worked towards having healthier communication in my own relationships, the difference between my household and my parents’ was thrown into stark relief." Yes yes and yes. Also, I am SO grateful for how you shared that you noticed how you were with your own family at home after an interaction, and it wasn't how you wanted to be. Same.
I'm also grateful that you mentioned being raised in Christianity. I was raised with religion very front and center it's hard not to feel like they've got God on their side, too. I found Alice Miller's work on betraying the commandment to love thy father and mother on this useful (though it turns out from her son she was abusive too, and she also does some really bad readings of literature in The Body Never Lies where I got it, but still).
The essay collection No Contact came out this year and has been useful on speaking all of this, too, in case you're interested. Also, BPD is overwhelmingly of traumatic origin, and overlaps largely with Complex PTSD (I'm totally convinced by Judith Herman's work on this in Trauma and Recovery). Substance use disorders especially when they start young often are a way to cope with trauma too. That doesn't excuse any behavior or change anything, because how we choose to respond to our trauma is our own responsibility. But it might help contextualize what you are doing right now as healing intergenerational trauma, and that's an enormous gift.
If you ever want to gab about mothers and going no contact, it would be so welcome! Thanks again for sharing this.
Thanks for sharing this, Molly! It can be so taboo to talk about. I have the No Contact anthology but Ive never heard of Alice Miller's work. I will check her out!
My mother was not an alcoholic, but certainly was WAY too hooked on me (an only child, she, a widow). So, when, at the age of 23, I said I was moving out (after a LOT of thought and agony), she said that if I did, she would kill herself. I had the presence of mind (after years of practice living with her emotional manipulation) to respond: just tell me what flowers you want at your funeral. I moved out. She helped, gathered lots of things she decided my partner and I would need in our new home. She did not kill herself. So, I guess the moral of this story is that sometimes threats are manipulation, and not real (not arguing they should not be taken seriously, just commenting.) And, by the way, I loved my mom dearly. She had many, many very wonderful qualities. And a few that were not so wonderful. She was human.
it’s such a tough threat to deal with, which is, I suppose why some people use it! I’m glad you were able to figure out a way to handle a complicated situation with your mom
Well said! I had a similar reaction to the online accusations that this is a "trend" (and wrote about it). There's a therapist here on Substack who has made that her whole schtick -- appealing to parents who have been cut-off, blaming it all on trends/internet culture, and she rarely if ever acknowledges the stressors placed upon adult children and how hard it is to make the decision.
I have been on and off contact with my mother for years. We're currently in contact again, as she's been experiencing frail physical health, which stabilized her mental health (she's bed-bound so can't walk over to the medicine cabinet and get high on Ambien, etc.). I know it likely won't last, and I still keep some emotional distance...but I feel like that's another layer to this that isn't mentioned enough: How estrangement can be temporary or "as needed."
What my own situation has taught me, too, is that my daughter may one day make the same decision and cut off her relationship with me. While I'd be devastated, I do not feel she "owes" me anything relationship-wise simply because she is my daughter. I'd also never want her to ruin her own mental health trying to save mine.
Yes, I think it’s often framed in this all-or-nothing way: either you’re super close or you don’t talk. Sometimes these estrangements might be temporary or conditional, and I’m sure there are many people who are quasi-estranged/low-contact without putting labels on it
Hugs to you. Never an easy decision.
Thanks, Jessica